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About the survival of our Data ( when Apps die )
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Posted by macosxguru
Jun 13, 2025 at 01:20 PM
> I think it comes down to how people tend to think and work with data. You say “I love outlines. I live in outlines.” and “For me, with my focus on writing, the solution is “focus on the format.” Text formats are my focus.” , and that’s a blessing , because you’re less hampered by the issue of visual thinking. But I ( and certainly a lot of other people ) tend to think spatially, even in my head. I literally see thoughts floating in my head, and i try to reorganize them spatially.
You are absolutely right. I was explicit that I don’t do mind-maps, not really. I am not a spatial thinker. So, my solution is different from yours.
> Using universal formats , as you concluded in your article, may solve the portability of stored data, in the sense of transfering one storage to another storage. But how do we transport the main value of the work done with these type of spatial apps : The deep linking and complex organizing ( the kind that goes beyond the simple grouping in folders ans subforlders) of data, sometimes of multimedia type ?
I don’t have an answer to this question. I can only suggest that you export the data you have in those programs to some other format, but I am not sure that is always possible and definitely not comprehensive or capable of retaining the functionality of the program. The upside is that you might be able to save some of the contents of your work.
> I don’t know what is the solution, and maybe one should simply accept that there isn’t one . Maybe a small consolation would be what Stephen Zeoli wrote earlier, about restarting the work all over again : “So maybe there is some solace in the fact that you’ve already gotten good value from the now-abandoned application. And if you need to rebuild the map in a new app, it is a new opportunity to re-examine your efforts and perhaps develop new insights.”
That might be the best we can do.
macosxguru
Posted by Amontillado
Jun 14, 2025 at 02:01 PM
The new Obsidian Bases feature might hold some promise. Right now, you can have as many views of your data as you want, provided all you want are table views.
Imagine adding Canvas views to Bases. Documents that appear on the fly would either appear at the bottom of the Canvas or maybe in a list of notes not yet positioned.
I remain a die-hard Devonthink enthusiast, though. This morning I need to correlate, link, and organize about 50 PDF documents. I thought about doing that in Obsidian with Bases but I need to tie tags and properties to the PDFs. I don’t think Obsidian can do that with a non-Markdown file.
Posted by Amontillado
Jun 15, 2025 at 12:54 PM
Well, there’s an obvious answer. Create a Markdown file for each PDF and embed the PDF in the Markdown.
Or, as I like to say, three lines of Python for a boatload of PDFs.
Posted by eastgate
Jun 15, 2025 at 10:56 PM
I believe this issue is far less dire than it was a generation ago.
Take Tinderbox (https://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/), which I design. It’s huge, opinionated, and exotic. Its documents are XML files. If Tinderbox disappeared, you could extract all your data with modest difficulty — difficulty that is decreasing every year. (You could get much of your data out by opening your Tinderbox documents in BBEdit!)
Same thing for Scrivener, Pages, Keynote: if you need to, you can get your data out. If LOTS of people need to (for moderate quantities of “lots”) you can make it easy to get your data out.
In addition, a generation ago emulation was pretty much a pipe dream. Now, it’s fine and even ubiquitous.
Now, this doesn’t mean you’re entirely safe from annoyance and inconvenience if your favorite application vanishes. It might take some work. But this is no longer something to inspire 7 pages of worry in a week.
Posted by Amontillado
Jun 16, 2025 at 03:31 AM
Let’s hope Tinderbox lasts a long, long time.
One of the things your app has going for it is a remarkable user community, intellectual, polite, and very helpful. I’ve never made it to one of your meetups, but I often catch them after the fact on Youtube. Great food for thought and a fine showcase for your products.
Much respect for your work.
Looks like there are some cool new features, too. I re-upped my license and plan to dive back in.
All the best!
eastgate wrote:
I believe this issue is far less dire than it was a generation ago.
>
>Take Tinderbox (https://www.eastgate.com/Tinderbox/), which I design.
>It’s huge, opinionated, and exotic. Its documents are XML files.
>If Tinderbox disappeared, you could extract all your data with modest
>difficulty — difficulty that is decreasing every year. (You could
>get much of your data out by opening your Tinderbox documents in
>BBEdit!)
>
>Same thing for Scrivener, Pages, Keynote: if you need to, you can get
>your data out. If LOTS of people need to (for moderate quantities of
>“lots”) you can make it easy to get your data out.
>
>In addition, a generation ago emulation was pretty much a pipe dream.
>Now, it’s fine and even ubiquitous.
>
>Now, this doesn’t mean you’re entirely safe from annoyance
>and inconvenience if your favorite application vanishes. It might take
>some work. But this is no longer something to inspire 7 pages of worry
>in a week.