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Discourse map!

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Posted by Dellu
Nov 15, 2022 at 03:49 PM

 

I have been a big fan of Scapple for a long time. I sometimes try people to use it. But, I was having a hard time explaining why the maps in Scapple are different from the maps in Obsidian and other hyperlink graphs. . https://oasis-lab.gitbook.io/roamresearch-discourse-graph-extension/fundamentals/what-is-a-discourse-graph

They call them discourse graphs.

- They are not links between two notes.
- They are links between concepts: the relation of the concept is mapped by using different arrows/text to show the direction of logical argumentation.

Idea X supports Idea Y
Idea Z is tangentially related with idea X:
Idea A has this implication B,
and that implication leads to the rejection of idea X
- add some facts—lead to the rejection of hypothesis Z

etc,

Convoluted argumentation, labyrinth of logical flows can be mapped with them. These kinds of graphs are different from hyperlink graphs; and are really practically useful.

 


Posted by Daly de Gagne
Nov 16, 2022 at 05:15 AM

 

Dellu, what you describe seems similar to concept maps, or am I misunderstanding. Thanks.

Daly

Dellu wrote:
I have been a big fan of Scapple for a long time. I sometimes try people
>to use it. But, I was having a hard time explaining why the maps in
>Scapple are different from the maps in Obsidian and other hyperlink
>graphs. .
>https://oasis-lab.gitbook.io/roamresearch-discourse-graph-extension/fundamentals/what-is-a-discourse-graph
> >They call them discourse graphs.
> >- They are not links between two notes.
>- They are links between concepts: the relation of the concept is mapped
>by using different arrows/text to show the direction of logical
>argumentation.
> >Idea X supports Idea Y
>Idea Z is tangentially related with idea X:
>Idea A has this implication B,
>and that implication leads to the rejection of idea X
>- add some facts—lead to the rejection of hypothesis Z
> >etc,
> >Convoluted argumentation, labyrinth of logical flows can be mapped with
>them. These kinds of graphs are different from hyperlink graphs; and are
>really practically useful.
>

 


Posted by Dellu
Nov 16, 2022 at 08:35 AM

 

yes, that is concept map. LIke the one we have in Miro: https://miro.com/concept-map/

Quite interestingly, the developers in Obsidian are working on to develop sth similar to Miro or Scapple. I was disgruntled by those hyperlink fancy maps which seem to do nothing for the end user.

Having a concept map, or discourse map in Obsidian would be really cool.

 


Posted by Lucas
Nov 16, 2022 at 07:54 PM

 

Yes, the Discourse Graph tool for Roam is interesting as a type of concept mapping tool. I was delighted to notice recently that the developer put out a survey implying he plans to continue developing it. For concept mapping I currently use a variety of tools:

- InfoQube (“Surface” view)
- linkfacts.link
- stemic.app
- Flying Logic
- CmapTools (a bit outdated but still unparalleled in certain regards)

My ideal is to be able to outline ideas moving back and forth between an editable outliner mode and an editable concept-map mode. (Mind maps, which limit items to one parent, are too limiting for me.) Most tools which offer both types of views offer editing in only one of them. InfoQube is the only tool I’ve found that current allows editing in both modes in a usable way, although linkfacts.link does have a quasi-outliner mode, and TheBrain does something vaguely similar as well.

I am hopeful that the Roam Discourse Graph tool could be enhanced to allow easy editing in both regular Roam outline mode and in the special map mode.

(From what I gather, the coming Obsidian tool will be more like Heptabase, Scrintal, and Tinderbox, which offer a canvas for mapping relations between notes, but not for drilling down into greater granularity within notes. It’s a bit like the difference between two-pane and one-pane outlining, the former being for a more macro-level of outlining, the latter being conducive to micro-level outlining.)

 


Posted by Lucas
Nov 16, 2022 at 07:57 PM

 

I forgot to mention: Argdown is worth mentioning in this context. The argdown plugin for Obsidian, for example, allows for outlining arguments and viewing them as a map.

 


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