Outliner Software Forum RSS Feed Forum Posts Feed

Subscribe by Email

CRIMP Defined


Tip Jar

The Function Beyond

< Next Topic | Back to topic list | Previous Topic >

Pages:  < 1 2 3 4

Posted by Lothar Scholz
Aug 11, 2022 at 06:48 PM


I read his posts. Sometimes there is some interesting (mostly hidden) oppinion in them about the stuff we talk here.
But i’m still very convinced that this guy/gal had once overdosed on LSD and never came back from that trip or more
likely just had a stroke resulting in this kind of writing style.

Don’t ban him, we had worse people here, like this Filippino Storyserver guy with the idea to rewrite Ecco Pro.

Lb wrote:
Am I the only one who enjoys reading 22111’s posts?  If these posts are
>actually from a person, who’s typing out their train of thought then I
>find that interesting.  I can’t explain them, I don’t know what they
>mean, I don’t understand a lot of them (my fault, not 22111’s) but it’s
>a fun ride for when I have extra time.


Posted by 22111
Aug 16, 2022 at 11:09 AM


Oh, thank you so much, Lothar, for voting I should NOT be discarded from here and for life: sometimes, even sheer condescendance (hi, Chris, your software so many times tells me my wording is wrong, and since I’m - definitely! - a non-native speaker, this sometimes is misleading…well… ;-) ) is oh so much heartwarming!

But then, ain’t you the developer of one of those electronic xx emulations, the original being invented of that German State official, having had lots of assistants to do the necessary gathering(s)?

And why you ALL - i.e. incl. you, the “coders”, avoid discussion about conceptual, even technical specifics, retreating, EVERY time, into “meta”?

Ain’t you capable of seeing that now, some 40 years AFTER those very-first “outliners” of-their-time (and which didn’t allow the user to add “content” to their “outlines”, too, just like in secondary school, right?), users should be entitled to “some more” than that?

The same, btw, is valid for file managers and their - nowadays-expected - functionality: Just today, “Directory Opus Pro 12” is “on offer” on bitsdujour, but whilst I had been mistaken, some about 5 years indeed, by commenting (over there, or was it elsewhere?), on version 12 already, that having been “out” for some 2, 3 years already in that time, that that Australian company systematically offered their “DO” “for sale” when the very next version was “in waiting” (and which had been true indeed for their previous off-price offerings), their all-“doctors” original developers had been retired, and their up-to-then “forum” answer person, some “Leo”, had overtaken even further “DO” development -

Well, now, some about 5 (?) years later, and thus, their “usual” development rhythm having been quite changed indeed now - their version 11 now being about 6, 7 years old, way from their their about 2, 3 years “turnover” at the time, no? -, now, bitsdujour says, today, “Please note that all comments for this promotion will be screened before posting. It’s nothing personal, just a step we have to take because of a few bad apples last time around.” - which means that I should not even try to reiterate my - erroneous indeed then, exceptionally! - warning that within some months, there would appear the very next, paid “DO” version - then I was wrong, their forum- “Leo”, having overtaken even further development, not observing their previous “output” schedule, but this time, I’m sure I’m “good” again, so don’t buy “DO” at bitsdujour today, since version 13 should be immediate…

And then, even version 13 will be some other “classic” one, another version WITHOUT that “function beyond”, and that, at the end of the day, is the reason why Chris, this forum’s owner, doesn’t throw me out, as about 95 p.c. of this, his, forum’s “contributors” (haha!), ask him for: He obviously knows about the failings of today’s coders, i.e. their inability to “look forward” in some way: to invent the unavoidable.. those functionalities that ultimately will, of course, be invented by google & Co. (i.e. amazon, Apple…), but will then spy-on-you every second of your further lifetime, transferring every one of your (possible, rare) ideas to the powers-in-place, in order for them to market’em before you’ll have a chance to do so, yourself.

It’ right that more than 25 years ago, I was one of the very first “outliner” developer there were, in those time, and it’s right I failed, because of the “back-office” I had bought, by the MS-co-developer Allen (who’s dead now, and I don’t shed any tear), wasn’t “prime-ready”, i.e. had - in its time, and provable; I don’t know about any further developments) - work memory (allocation) issues that weren’t “resolvable” by a mere “application developer” like myself (in 1996/97), but then, the fact that today’s “developers” i.e. coders without a dime of conceptual sense, obviously and for most of them, don’t do any better than we, sorry, “avantgardists”, did, in our time - I wasn’t a coder, I was a conceptualist*, then coding with the means available to non-coders at the time -, that fact, that 2022’s coders don’t do ANY better than their pairs did, 40 years ago, is appalling, and there’s no other term to describe that state-of-affairs without lying.

Fact is, I got 2 paid, legit licenses of askSam (3 and 4), AFTER having coded my “outliner” (incl. cloning and all), and then failed to get an update to v. 6 (which already included their wonderful “alternative trees” feature) because in time, i.e. within 24 hours or less, I didn’t find my legit v. 4 license… and then, I got, by legitimate way again, just a non-pro version of their v. 7, i.e. one without the (necessary, for real use) indexing feature… but this way, I at least I’m a legitimate owner of their v.7 non-pro, incl. their, “pro”-including, help file, and yes, it’s a fantastic concept, and whenever I discover excellence, I say so, so please permit me to also speak out whenever I see just sheer incompetence and meanness, and as I do here.

Y’see, I’m modest and humble, but I seriously think that people who have almost nothing to say, should be modest and humble, too - very sorry!

And “DO” has always be a scum, since they always - and in their time every about 2 years - asked for paid updates, i.e. for update fees, when in fact and conceptually, they remained “all the same”... and even compare their “ADS” functionality with xplorer2’s one’s (with xplorer2 selling, not-overpriced, “life” licenses), and you’ll discover just another example of “DO”‘s hybris, allegedly justifying their pricing while in fact even “DO” is, and always has been, just ordinary fare.

And ditto for every current “outliner” I know of…

Fact is, I spoke of askSam’s incredible (and unique) “pivot” functionality, and you - all of you - just discussed if Chris should relegate me, finally! please! - to silence, or then not, whilst you, coders, haven’t done much now, for 40 years, between the advent of the very first, very basic “outliners”, 40 years ago, and now, summer of 2022?

Many of you here will have some “later” version of askSam indeed, and whilst I’m not entirely sure if my “full citation” of that help file is legit, AS being, as they say, “defunct software”, and since it’s in obviously general interest, well - here is its “Using Folder View” of version 7 (Pro and not-Pro) chapter (without the screen shots that is), in full-text, and when I say, coders of today should be ashamed of their, obvious, lack, of conception, well, here’s proof now: (AS 7: help file: “Organizing Documents with Folders”):

With the askSam Folder View, you can organize your information in folders and sub-folders. Unlike most folder implementations, askSam Folders are displayed dynamically based on the contents of a field that you specify (for example a category field or a type field). You can quickly change the way you view and navigate your information. This is a powerful way to analyze your information.

With the askSam Folder View, you can:
Organize documents into folders and sub-folders.
Browse and navigate through your documents.
View your information from different perspectives.
Choose which field defines the folders that askSam displays.
Right-click to export, delete, email, print, and more.
Customize how the Folder View is displayed and sorted.
Run reports, stored searches, and more from the Tools Folders

NOTE: In the askSam Getting Started Guide, there is a Tutorial that leads you step-by-step through working with folders.  You can access the Getting Started Guide from the HELP menu.

To show or hide the Folder View:
By default, the askSam Folder view will be turned on.  On the left side of your screen, there will be a window that displays a list of the documents in your file. Underneath this window, you’ll see the Tools Folders. The Tools Folders contain Entry Forms, Reports, Stored Searches, and other information associated with your database.
You can turn the Folder View on or off by choosing VIEW - FOLDERS (or pressing CTRL+G).

The Default Settings for the Folder View:
By default, the askSam Folder view displays the first line of text from each document in your file. [ICH: Since AS docs have no titles]
Click on any document to display its contents in the askSam Workspace.
NOTE: If you create a new file using a template, the default settings for the Folder View may differ.

To Setup Folders and Customize the Folder View:
You can easily customize the Folder View. The Folder View can display folders and sub-folders, sort the items listed , and list documents based on a field name (rather than the first line of text). askSam is a very flexible program and can be used to organize many different types of information.  These customization features let you use the Folder View feature for all different types of information (both structured and unstructured). In addition, you can also customize the Folder View to organize and display your information in different ways.
1. Click on the triangular Button   next to the word “Documents”
(You can also access the Folder View Settings from the FILE - PROPERTIES menu).
A drop down menu will appear.
2. Choose Folder View Settings…
The Folder View Settings Dialog Box will appear.

The Folder View Settings Dialog Box contains options that define how askSam will display the Folder View.

Display Folders and Sub-Folders - Displays documents grouped into folders and sub-folders. The Folder Field option specifies the field that will be used to group the documents into folders. For example, if you choose a field called Category[, the documents will be displayed in folders based the contents of the Category field.

Document Display - Determines the text that will display for the documents in the Folder View.
First Line - Displays the first line from each document.
Field - Lets you specify a field. The contents of this field will be output in the Folder View as the Document name.
Sort - Alphabetically sorts the documents listed in the Folder View.

3. Select the settings and choose the OK Button.

4. The Folder View window will be refreshed with the changes you’ve made.

The Folder View is a great way to organize and display information in different ways. For example, you can display the Sample Reports example file shipped with askSam in different ways:

Default Folder View in Sample Reports File (listed using First Line)

Documents displayed using the NAME[ field Documents displayed using the COMPANY[ field

Folders displayed by COUNTRY[ field and documents displayed by the COMPANY[field

Folders by AGENT[ field (Sales Agent) and
documents displayed by the COMPANY[ field documents displayed by the COMPANY[ field

To Refresh The Folder View
When you edit the Folder Field in existing documents, you’ll need to refresh the Folder View to see your changes.
To Refresh the Folder View:
1. Click on the triangular Button   next to the word “Documents”
A drop down menu will appear.
2. Choose Refresh
askSam will regenerate the Folder View.

To Setup Sub-Folders
You can organize your information not only in folders, but also in sub-folders (multiple levels). Setting up sub-folders is identical to setting up folders (see the section above To Setup Folders and Customize the Folder View). The sub-folders are created by the contents of the Folder Field. To create sub-folders, simply add a backslash and sub-folder name to your Folder Field. For example, in a Todo list you might have a category field. This field would contain categories for todo items:

To create sub-folders, you could fill out the category field in your documents like this:
Category[ Marketing\On-line
Category[ Marketing\Trade Shows
Category[ Marketing\Web Site
This would create a folder structure similar to the following screen:

You can even have multiple levels of sub-folders. For example, you could have a sub-folder under On-line for Advertising:
Category[ Marketing\On-line\Advertising

To Sort The Folder View:
You can alphabetically sort the documents listed in the Folder View.
1. Click on the triangular Button   next to the word “Documents”
(You can also access the Folder View Settings from the FILE - PROPERTIES menu).
A drop down menu will appear.
2. Choose Sort Folder View Items
The documents in the Folder View will be sorted alphabetically.
1. If the Sort Folder View Items option is checked, selecting it will turn off the sort and the items will be listed sequentially (in the order they appear in the file).

2. The Sort option in the Folder View Setting Dialog Box also allows you to sort the documents in the Folder View. = ???

To Move Through Documents Using The Folder View:
You can move through the documents in your file using the Folder View. Click on the + symbol next to the folder to expand the folder. Then click on the document you wish to view. The contents of the document will display in the askSam workspace.
You can also navigate in the Folder View using the cursor keys.
The Up and Down arrow keys will move you through folders and documents.
The Right Arrow key will open a folder.
The Left Arrow key will close a folder.
1. To execute items in the Tools section, you’re required to press the ENTER key on the keyboard or DOUBLE CLICK on your mouse.

To Create A New Folder:
askSam dynamically creates folders based on the contents of the Folder Field. To create a new folder, you simply add a document to your file and place the name of the new folder into the Folder Field. When the document is saved, it will be listed under the new folder.
For example, if you are using CATEGORY[ as the folder field:
The following document would be saved into a folder called “Marketing” in a sub-folder “Web site.”
NOTE: The previous section “To Setup Folders and Customize the Folder View” explains how to set the Folder Field.

To Rename A Folder:
Because askSam folders are generated from the field contents of your file, you cannot simply edit the folder name shown in the Folder View window. To change the name of a folder, you must modify the contents of the Folder Field in the document contained in that folder.
If you only have a single document in a folder, you can simply edit that document and change the folder name in the Folder Field to the new name. If you have multiple documents in a folder, each of the documents will need to be modified in order to change the folder name.

You can use the EDIT - REPLACE command to change all the documents at one time.
1. Choose FILE - PACK to make a backup file. It’s important to always have a backup before you use the EDIT - REPLACE command.
2. Choose EDIT - REPLACE.
The Replace Dialog Box will appear.
3. In the “Find this” field, enter the name of the Folder Field and the folder name. For example, if your Folder Field is category and you have a folder called “Mktg”, you would enter: Category[ Mktg
4. In the “Replace with” field, enter the name of the Category field followed by the new folder name. For example: Category[ Marketing
5. Change the “In” field from “Current Document” to “All Documents”.
This option tells askSam to look in all documents—not just the current document.
Your Replace Dialog Box would look like this:
6. Choose the REPLACE ALL button.
askSam will make the changes in your file.  The “Mktg” folder will be renamed “Marketing”. To see the changes, you’ll need to refresh the Folder View.

To refresh the Folder View:
7. Click on the triangular Button   next to the word “Documents”
A drop down menu will appear.
8. Choose Refresh
You’ll see the renamed folder in the Folder View.

To Delete A Folder and To Delete Documents From A Folder :
Because askSam folders are generated from the field contents of your file, you cannot simply delete a folder shown in the Folder View window. To delete a folder, you will need to delete all the documents contained in that folder (or move the documents to other folders - see below for details on moving documents).

To Delete Individual Documents from a Folder:
1 Select the document you wish to delete.
2 Press the DEL key.
A message appears asking if you are sure you wish to delete the document.
3. If you’re certain you wish to delete the document, choose YES.
The document is deleted from your file.

To Delete a Folder and all Documents in a Folder:
The Search Dialog Box will appear.
2 Choose the FIELD button.
The Search in Field Dialog Box will appear.
3. In the “Find Word or Phrase” field, enter the name of the folder. For example, if you wish to delete all the documents in the “Marketing” folder, you would enter “Marketing”.
If you wish to delete all documents in the sub-folder “Trade Show” under “Marketing”, you would enter “Marketing\Trade Show”
4. In the next field, enter the name of your Folder Field (for example Category[).
5. Choose the OK button.
You will return to the Search Dialog Box.
6. Choose OK
A message will appear asking if you are sure you wish to delete the documents. All documents matching the search request you’ve entered will be deleted from your file.
7. If you are certain you wish to delete the documents, choose YES.
The documents will be deleted from the file, and the folder will also be removed.

To Move Documents to Other Folders:

To move a document to another folder, simply change the contents of the Field Folder in that document to the name of the folder where you want to move the document.
For example, the following screen shows a document that will be in the “Web Site” sub-folder in the “Marketing” folder:
To move this to the “Todo” folder, you would change the contents of the Category field from “Marketing\Web Site” to “Todo.”

To Search Documents In A Specified Folder:
To search only documents in a specific folder, use the Search in Field Dialog Box.
The Search Dialog Box will appear.
2. Choose the FIELD button.
The Search in Field Dialog Box will appear.
3. In the “Find Word or Phrase” field, enter the name of the folder. For example, if you wish to search the documents in the “Marketing” folder, you would enter “Marketing”.
4. In the next field, enter the name of your Folder Field (for example Category[).
5. Choose the OK button.
You will return to the Search Dialog Box. You can now enter any other search options (search by word, date, proximity, etc.). These search options will only search the items in the folder you specified.
6. Enter the other search options.
7. Choose OK to start your search.

Right Click Document Options (Delete, Email, Export, ...)
When you right-click on a document in the Folder View, a menu will appear offering you the following options:
Delete - Deletes the selected document.
Email - Emails the selected document.
Remember - Places the selected document into the Active Remembered List. (See the description of Remembered Lists in the User’s Guide for details).
Export - Exports the selected document (as text, RTF, HTML, or a new askSam file).
Print - Prints the selected document.
Properties - Displays the Properties Dialog Box for the selected document.

1. If you don’t wish to see the Folder Field in your document, you can place it in the Page Header or Page Footer. In this case, the Folder Field will only display when the document is printed.
2. The Folder View is dynamically generated when you open your askSam file. In large databases, there will be a delay before the folders are displayed. You can work in your file while the Folder View is being generated.

3. Below are the keyboard shortcut keys.
CTRL+G opens the Folder View. If the Folder View is already open, then CTRL+G key will bring your focus back to the Folder View.
ESC or CTRL+Q moves you to the Search Line.
CTRL+SHIFT+Q moves you to the Search Results Window.
CTRL+W moves you to the Work Space (into the Document).

That’s genious, in Information Management, or then, genius: ok. But aping German state official’s card board filing “inventions” of their times, with providing, by electronic means, mere better access speeds, somewhat pales in comparison, don’t you convene - no, not officially, in public, but just down deep, in your heart -, Lothar?

Hein, as the French say?



Pages:  < 1 2 3 4

Back to topic list