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Zavala - An open source outliner for Macs, iPads, and iPhones
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Posted by Maurice Parker
Jan 8, 2025 at 06:31 PM
Thanks Bill. I’ve been steadily adding features and making it faster and more stable for years now. Maybe someday it will get popular, but I’m not holding my breath. Mostly I just want to make something I can be proud of.
-Maurice
MadaboutDana wrote:
Great news, Maurizio! Your industry and the steady evolution of Zavala
>do you credit!
>
>Cheers!
>Bill
Posted by MadaboutDana
Jan 13, 2025 at 03:04 PM
Well, that in itself is a jolly good reason for doing something ;-)
Maurice Parker wrote:
Thanks Bill. I’ve been steadily adding features and making it faster and
>more stable for years now. Maybe someday it will get popular, but I’m
>not holding my breath. Mostly I just want to make something I can be
>proud of.
>
>-Maurice
>
>MadaboutDana wrote:
>Great news, Maurizio! Your industry and the steady evolution of Zavala
>>do you credit!
>>
>>Cheers!
>>Bill
Posted by Andy Brice
Jan 21, 2025 at 03:22 PM
Maurice Parker wrote:
Thanks Bill. I’ve been steadily adding features and making it faster and
>more stable for years now. Maybe someday it will get popular, but I’m
>not holding my breath. Mostly I just want to make something I can be
>proud of.
Maurice
As a fellow developer, I commend your attitude. A refreshing change from the ‘move fast and break things’ approach.
—
Andy Brice
https://www.hyperplan.com
https://www.easydatatransform.com
https://www.successfulsoftware.net
Posted by Maurice Parker
Jan 7, 2026 at 02:43 PM
Satis wrote in the OmniOutliner 6 is Out topic:
> Although I’ve used Zavala for some light outlines, and I enjoyed playing with my registered copy of Bike, those apps’ bizarre ?
> decision to send you to a new subheading when using the Return key kept me from using them regularly. (I have decades of
> outline use and expectation for Return to deliver a new ‘sister’ item and not a ‘daughter’.)
I believe that this is a Settings option in OmniOutliner. I’ve avoided adding it as a Setting in Zavala because I’m doing my best to keep Zavala simple and not have so many Settings that users feel overwhelmed. I didn’t realize that how Return worked when used on a parent row with children was preventing people from using Zavala.
I’ve created a GitHub issue to add this feature and it will _probably_ be in the upcoming 4.0 release of Zavala.
Posted by satis
Jan 7, 2026 at 06:35 PM
Thanks Maurice. The two Mac outliners I started using in the 80s, which always added a new row at the same level (like when writing paragraphs), were Acta from David Dunham (which amazingly is still available, as freeware), and MORE from David Winer (which lives on in spirit as WordLand [in beta], a browser-based outline-based text editor for Wordpress that can output OPML)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8n6N9wOaGI4
In Winer’s intro to outlines he definitively says to hit Return to create a sibling item.
https://outlinerhowto.opml.org/
(To be fair, practically everything Winer ever writes or says is expressed definitively - one reason he’s often ignored.)
At any rate I far more often am making ‘sibling’ list rows (which I might then fill in with sub-entries later) than a main item followed immediately by a ‘child’ sub-entry (whose design means hitting Return a 2nd time creates a grandchild sub-sub-item, which seems like a relatively uncommon occurrence). My muscle memory is for writing at sibling/paragraph level, and using key commands for child and ‘aunt’ sub- and parent-rows.
A year ago I asked Jesse about this wrt Bike and he thought using a Return to continue at the same row level was “confusing” and suggested “creating an AppleScript or Shortcuts Action and associating it with a keyboard shortcut.” Instead I moved on.
>I believe that this is a Settings option in OmniOutliner.
OmniOutliner’s **General Settings > Keyboard** has a setting ‘New rows are created…” from which you can choose between ‘Always at the same level’ and ‘Indented if there are children’. But I don’t believe there ever was a setting or occasion when hitting Return created a new child row from either a *single entry* or from a *new sub-item*.