http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=3204

:(

OK, so which program to move to? I think I'm going to give a good try to SQLNotes.
Pierre, are you by any chance planning to stop the development in the foreseeable future? I'm very wary of one-person software development ...

My interpretation of those news was more like that UltraRecall development was frozen ;)

quant wrote:

I'm very wary of one-person software development ...

Large companies are even more prone to cease development if the sales are going down.
Remember Ecco.
Or the many cases where a software company is purchased due to having great team, or due to some strange technology, and all the end-user targetted software gets abandoned.

Thomas wrote:

My interpretation of those news was more like that UltraRecall development was
frozen ;)

what's the difference if this crisis is expected to last for quite some time?

That's too bad. The message sounds suspiciously like what happened to NoteMap.

SQLNotes (now InfoQube) is looking very impressive these days, though the UI still needs polish and it doesn't yet have calendaring, though it can do math on dates. You should definitely try it. If you don't want to store rich data/web pages directly, Ecco with EccoExt is also going surprisingly strong. It's almost like having Ecco 5.0. There's also still a ton of good Mac apps for managing heterogenous data.

-- Chris

re UR is Dead
Wow, this does come as a surprise to me. UR dev. seemed slow but steady... I sure hope that IQ, as a newcomer, did not influence their decision.

These are tough times for Information Management software. Between Outlook and the numerous free web offerings, where can small commercial software find a market? 1 year ago, it was GemX and its DoOrganizer which was in bad state.
http://www.donationcoder.com/Forums/bb/index.php?topic=9827.0
It seems that they are holding on, for now at least.

quant wrote:

Pierre, are you by any chance planning to stop the development in the foreseeable future? I?m very wary of one-person software development ...

It seems that it is medium sized companies which are finding it hard (Kinook, GemX). I took a very different approach. From the start, IQ was built to be used by companies, often replacing expensive database designs which would otherwise require MS Access or SQL Server. It is multi-user from the ground up. It supports equations, VBScript, and excellent live links to other office apps.

As a consultant, I've sold IQ to companies at $500 a piece, and for them, even at that price, it was the most "bang for the money". One company has 8 users networked, and use its remote database links to pull data from their user extranet. Pivot tables and charts are used for monthly reporting.

I then added other features (live search, web capture, Gantt, Calendar, Outlook sync) to grab individual user market (Consultants, myBase, EN, UR, MI users).

This dev. plan will stay. It is the best way for me to ensure sustainable development. I don't hesitate to buy components to jump start features (e.g. Chilkat HTML grabber gave me picture perfect web page capture in no time at all)

In summary, I have no plans to stop working on InfoQube.



BTW, Coincidently, I'm pre-releasing today a new version which includes an Outlook-like calendar, something that was often requested by UR users.

3 things I forgot to mention:

1- Another feature I added specifically for regular users is portability. IQ runs on a USB stick. No admin right required
2- The Calendar in this Pre1 version is for demonstration purposes. It works, you can add events, recurring, alarms, etc, but it is feature incomplete and untested. The rest is rock solid (for a beta) and I'm working hard at completing the Calendar
3- Outlook sync will start with the AddressBook, it is working but disabled in this Pre1 version. I definitely did not want users testing this (and mess up their Outlook contacts). It will be released when fully tested.

I would have to agree that "not actively enhanced" is not the same as "dead." It's not like your copy of UltraRecall suddenly stopped working. It might be a bad purchase decision now, but this doesn't automatically mean people should switch.

One good thing about this thread: I learned about the new name InfoQube -- this is so much better than the previous one!

David Dunham wrote:

I would have to agree that "not actively enhanced" is not the same as "dead."

I agree I might have exaggerated, but being an active member of UR forums (over 700 posts), participating actively on suggestions (there are many features half-done that need further improvement), helping finding bugs, reporting problems, discussing user problems, ... end of development, at least for me, means that UR stopped breathing, ... without oxygen ... dead

Re: Notemap - AGREED!!!

What is EccoEXt and where can I find it?

The situation with UR emphasizes the importance of using PIMs that can
export to a standard format like RTF or HTML.

-c
============================================

Chris Thompson wrote:

That's too bad. The message sounds suspiciously like what happened to
NoteMap. AGREED!!!

SQLNotes (now InfoQube) is looking very impressive these days, though
the UI still needs polish and it doesn't yet have calendaring, though it can do math on
dates. You should definitely try it. If you don't want to store rich data/web pages
directly, Ecco with EccoExt is also going surprisingly strong. It's almost like
having Ecco 5.0. There's also still a ton of good Mac apps for managing heterogenous
data.

-- Chris

EccoExt is a clever set of code that gets directly into Ecco, fixes a few things (e.g. the Y2K recurrence thing), adds a some features, and lets you program it directly in Lua without having to go through the old crusty slow DDE interface. Documentation and instructions on how to get it is here:
http://eccoextdoc.wikispaces.com/
The developer also has a couple of other add-ons for Ecco.

-- Chris

Cassius wrote:

What is EccoEXt and where can I find it?

Re UltraRecall: I've been a loyal UR user since version 1, hesitantly switching to it from the now defunct HyperClip, whose developers simply vanished one day from the web after long term silence.

I have been very satisfied by Kinook, both in terms of development and user interaction. I respect their decision to freeze development; I much prefer that they stay in business through hard times and believe that they will indeed resume development when financial issues get better. Contrary to other such company decisions (such as DogMelon Studio http://www.dogmelon.com.au/nsblog/ ) I have the impression that UltraRecall had captured a significant market segment.

Moreover, UR is indeed a mature product and has nothing like the lock-in related to many other information managers that we discuss here. It uses compressed SQLite files and I recall that Kinook provided instructions on how to access UR files through SQLite. It can export just about everything in useful formats. It doesn't have one-click HTML export as other products do but I have found this to be a much less useful feature than advertised.

I have been so happy with UR's features and stability that I didn't even realise it initially when version 3.0 came out. Unlike other products, I used it productively without missing something promised in the roadmap. Notwithstanding, I found quite a few new features of significant benefit.

Over the years, I found that using a limited set of imperfect tools gets much more work done than waiting for the perfect one(s). Thus, I intend to keep updating my personal project data in UR for quite some time --at least until Windows 7 comes out and I find that it doesn't run there. Actually, even that is unlikely to make a difference: I still haven't upgraded to Vista and am seriously experimenting with Linux instead.


Re InfoQube: I am delighted at Pierre's approach which has stood out from day one. Through his program, he has provided unbeatably versatile access to SQL power --just compare IQ with any SQL based database to find out what you've been missing on.

As a consultant myself, I find that the product+services business model is the way to go --after all, it is what has supported the development of brilliant Open Source software including Linux. (Mind you, it is not a guaranteed approach: Sycon did the same with IDEA! but stayed too much behind in actual development). I bought a license to SQLnotes several months ago and am investing in learning the program's capabilities. Indeed, it is the main candidate for my own company's database --as soon as my partners realise that we need one!

If there's one thing I miss, that's cross-platform support, which I think will be more and more required by business oriented programs. In the meantime, we'll have to do with Windows boxes.

Cheers
Alexander

Alexander,

A most thoughtful and detail oriented post! I am particularly a fan of your point on work with imperfect tools than waiting for the right one.....it reflects my decisions with postponing writing!

I admire Kinook's honesty - more companies should take that approach.

There are very few companies which can live from the money made out of software development and sales. My own software (16 years old and still going strong!) doesn't make me enough money to keep me in tea bags - it's a loss-leader for the rest of my business. There are numerous companies producing information management software which have had good basic products and major aspirations which just disappear or freeze because they have expectations of huge sales - a real waste of ideas and code.

It's certainly a reminder to choose a product which allows easy export in usable formats - when I moved from UR to Zoot moving the data was a cinch (easy). Programs such as OneNote and The Brain don't have these easy export routes, so one needs to be wary of how one uses them and what one stores.

Graham

Altho this is greatly disappointing..... & frustrating..... this action does not come as a surprise to me. In fact, I suggested it's possibility once before & was shouted down. So be it.

I strongly believe that besides having a great product -- like UR -- open, kindly, friendly, welcoming customer support is just as essential to the potential success of any product.

Yes, for those of you who are technically oriented, kinook has always been prompt in replying to technical questions posted here. Now I suppose this is all that should be required of technical support, ie.. ask a question, get the answer.

But, to me, both the information & the approach has always been highly technical & cold & frequently over my head.

A smile goes a long way in this world. IMO, UltraRecall was never going to break out of its small technoworld with that approach.

Like Agenda, Ecco & ADM before it, UR leaves behind a mature, unfinished product & a bunch of users who now have a tough decision to make.... and if they decide to move on..... hours & hours of work before getting their life back in order.

None the less, I don't wish Kinook any ill. I hope they succeed as I do all other small software companies whom I have spent thousands & thousands of dollars supporting over the years.

Happy Halloween.

--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT USA

That's sad news. As a developer myself I know how difficult such decision is. The time spent developing, studying, trying to figure out the best approach, answering complaints just because we have a dream of what can be useful for other people. Most time software is a dream we envision. That's the easy part. Make it come true is not easy. So I fell sad for Kinook folks and hope that is only a small hiatus.

Many times I received emails asking how many people work in ConnectedText, the size of our company and similar questions. I understand their worries. The investment in using a PIM is not measured only by the price of the license but also by the time spent adding information in it, polishing and editing. So it is natural that the end user needs to fell safe when he selects a program to store his work. Big companies also discontinue products. I have many examples. For instance: Brief an excellent programmer's editor. Borland bought it and discontinued it soon afterwards. Talking about ConnectedText, it is not our main income, far from it, but it is always in development. Version 3.1 is almost ready and we have many plans for it. But as I said, as a developer, I can grasp the mixed feelings of Kinook people. I wish the best for them and that they can continue developing great products.

Chris Thompson wrote:

That's too bad. The message sounds suspiciously like what happened to
NoteMap.

SQLNotes (now InfoQube) is looking very impressive these days, though
the UI still needs polish and it doesn't yet have calendaring, though it can do math on
dates. You should definitely try it. If you don't want to store rich data/web pages
directly, Ecco with EccoExt is also going surprisingly strong. It's almost like
having Ecco 5.0. There's also still a ton of good Mac apps for managing heterogenous
data.

-- Chris

There is one good thing that has come from the UR suspension... Learning about EccoExt. Thanks, Chris. It really does feel like Ecco 5.0!

Steve Z.

Updated versions of UR? (as of 10/31/08)

There may be slightly modified (updated) versions of UR Pro:

1. The version I downloaded just now of the UR 3.5b=3.5.2 (EVAL) installer is different from the one I downloaded on 10/14/08.

2) The UR Pro Portable zip file contains files as recent as 10/20/08.

-c

Jan and others, though I stopped using UR some time ago, I thought they had a going concern so I am somewhat surprised. However, I had noted the responses on the forum seemed less frequent than before.

And I agree with you, Jan, about the "warmth" fact of Kinook's corporate culture. I felt the cool in a number of ways; for one, as far as I could see, there was never any personal comment or indication even of where Kinook or who is Kinook.

As well, the documentation was more descriptive than instructive, and for a klutz like me that is not a good thing.

IQ and My Info, as I see the market, are the only ones doing metadata in columnar form. I am watching IQ carefully.

I notice that in the My Info forums the developer's responses are also less frequent than they once were. I suspect that other, more lucrative aspects of the business are taking his attention. There has been no date given for beginning work on version 5.

IDEA! hasn't upgraded since 2006. I wrote to the developer and asked, receiving a vague response about a future upgrade. It's too bad, because IDEA! seems to be a neat "dashboard" kind of program.

Omea and Chandler are both open source, and Chandler may be more actively developed than Omea, but both are moving like over-fed snails, ie. you wonder whether they are moving at all.

I have recently installed Surfulater 3 www.surfulater.com . I am impressed with the development of Surfulater, and its ability to capture web information accurately. It is now better than Evernote, and certainly for serious web researchers it offers more capability, with both a full folder and full tagging capability. Evernote 3, in an effort to be the app that can be installed on just about anything, excepting the kitchen sink, left its loyal info-centric users behind; the developer's continuing assurances that EN would eventually restore version 2 features removed from version 3 began to wear thin some time ago.

InfoHandler for many of its loyal users might as well have gone out of business because its IH2008 product, for which it charges, is still incomplete and the Yahoo group has been dead for most of the last several months, except for a long post today wondering if 2008 was completed yet.

So I am happy with Surfulater web clipping performances, and am looking at it as a notetaker. It has some templates, and the frame that surrounds Surfulater's content is in essence a metadata card. I am rethinking my love of columns, and wondering whether I and perhaps others use programs that are more feature rich than we really need.

And I miss ADM and the potential of that program. The only program I see that could fulfill the ADM vision and move beyond it is IQ.

Daly

I like Neville Franks, Surfulater's developer. He is consistently responsive to all manner of customers concerns, and is fast to make sure that they are dealt with.





Jan Rifkinson wrote:

Altho this is greatly disappointing..... & frustrating..... this action does not
come as a surprise to me. In fact, I suggested it's possibility once before & was
shouted down. So be it.

I strongly believe that besides having a great product --
like UR -- open, kindly, friendly, welcoming customer support is just as essential to
the potential success of any product.

Yes, for those of you who are technically
oriented, kinook has always been prompt in replying to technical questions posted
here. Now I suppose this is all that should be required of technical support, ie.. ask a
question, get the answer.

But, to me, both the information & the approach has always
been highly technical & cold & frequently over my head.

A smile goes a long way in this
world. IMO, UltraRecall was never going to break out of its small technoworld with
that approach.

Like Agenda, Ecco & ADM before it, UR leaves behind a mature,
unfinished product & a bunch of users who now have a tough decision to make.... and if
they decide to move on..... hours & hours of work before getting their life back in
order.

None the less, I don't wish Kinook any ill. I hope they succeed as I do all other
small software companies whom I have spent thousands & thousands of dollars
supporting over the years.

Happy Halloween.

--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT
USA

quant wrote:

I think I'm going to give a good try to SQLNotes.

That was my response to the UR post too...

After a long day of working through the scattered SQLNotes 'documentation'... I discovered a forum post that writers of the SQLNotes wiki were using Evernote and Surfulator to capture forum information for inclusion in the SQLNotes Wiki.

Have others noted that web page and document capture is a weakness in SQLNotes?

Have others noted that web page and document capture is a weakness in SQLNotes?

It definitely needs a few improvements:
1- IE and FF add-ons to quickly send content to it (FF add-on is nearly finished)
2- Easier item creation: right now, items are created in the outlining grid and content in the HTML pane. It should be possible to do all in one pane
3- Build-in image grabber (nearly complete) with automatic storage in the database

Full-page capture is possible in HTML and MHT formats and both are picture perfect. Page clips are not as good but equivalent to EN.

I'm currently working on the Outlook-like calendar and sync. Such improvements will come immediately after :-)

Pierre, these addtions are very exciting to a pack rat like me. The inability to grab data from other sources to easily dump into SN was a turn off to me.

However, let me make 2 suggestions:

Allow user to sync w google calendar. Not all of us have/use Outlook but all of us have access to Google.
Create Thunderbird (TB) addon that dumps email w headers directly into SN (I found this option in UR to be extremely useful.)

An example use of this 2nd item is a reminder email arrives that your telephone bill is due on the 10 of the month. I move this into UR & add a pop up reminder, then delete it when I've done it. Very fast, efficient.

Thanks for your consideration.

--
Jan Rifkinson
Ridgefield CT USA

Hi Jan,

Thanks for the suggestions.

Google Cal sync will come after Outlook. Too many people use Outlook to avoid it, plus it is used as a bridge to sync with a multitude of other devices.

Hmmm... Has anybody noticed that the link at the beginning of this thread now goes to the Kinook Roadmap page with a date of 10/30/08 --- with no mention of suspending development. In fact I didn't seem to see anyplace on the forums that discusses that suspension.

Just wondering.

Charles

Charles, many thanks.

Either the goddess of programming heard my prayers or this is a case of 'correcting' historical documents, 1984-style.

I know what I read (as I am sure the rest of UR users here that visited the forum) but it is true that there is no mention of stopping development either in the roadmap or here http://www.kinook.com/Forum/showthread.php?threadid=3655 (where the original message had been copied). The metadata shows that both posts were edited.

This is weird to say the least. In any case, I won't complain. Apart for the announcement, the users' posts are intact. (I don't want to sound pesimistic, but I fear that what happened is that Kinook decided to make the announce more formal, e.g. in their main page). Watch this space.

alx

P.S. I just wrote:

(I don't want to sound pesimistic, but I
fear that what happened is that Kinook decided to make the announce more formal, e.g.
in their main page). Watch this space.

On the other hand, the roadmap seems updated and ambitious. Not what one would publish if they are about to suspend development!

Maybe an individual Kinook programmer (made redundant?) just made it all up....