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Mind versus tree navigation; html versus rtf editing
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Posted by Daly de Gagne
Mar 18, 2007 at 02:43 PM
Stephen, thanks for your reply.
Of course, you are not responsible for my decision—even if you did recommend a particulalr program.
In this instance though, if I recall correctly you may have had a leaning to MindGenius (is that the correct name?).
Anyhow, thanks for the feedback on VM’s developer. That is good to know.
I have downloaded VM 8, and it seems much more stable.
I will check out VisiMind.
Daly
Stephen R. Diamond wrote:
>Daly de Gagne wrote:
>>Is there something about the complexity of creating mind map
>programs that leads to
>>them being so epensive?
>
>All I can figure is that they are
>marketed to corporations. Products for corporate use (and even more so for lawyers)
>always seem overpriced.
>>
>>A few years ago I bought VisualMind 7—it was the worst
>
>>software investment I ever made.
>
>Was I responsible for this bad decision? I
>didn’t find it grossly unstable. A conflict with WindowBlinds that he developer
>denies exists would cause constant crashing if you apply it to VM. I have been
>dissatisfied the the development path, with is now emphasizing group use. The
>developer is very polite but one of the most unresponsive I have come across. When
>still at 7 (a version 9 beta has just been released), the developer agreed that he Notes
>Pane was way underdeveloped and that it should at least be possible to set a different
>default font. This remains true of the version 9 beta. When I asked whether they would
>consider adding default configurability for the notes pane before the final
>release, the developer as usual thanked me for my suggestion. I would be most
>surprised if it were included.
>
>I now use Visi-Mind, which has excellent support and
>stability, but the features probably would not suit you. I like Visi-Mind _for_ some
>of its defects. The unpolished appearance helps keep my concentration on content. I
>think of the mind-mapping programs, with the possible exception of MindManager,
>Visi-Map is the most suited to serious work of the better known programs.
>
>I don’t
>know if you’ll trust my recommendation this time around after VisualMind, and this
>isn’t exactly a recommendation, because I have only read about the program and
>downloaded it briefly—but you might check out a program called MINDMAPPER. It has
>more frills than Visi-Mind, is fairly innovative with database like features, and is
>less expensive than the big players, although not cheap.
>>
>>Nice program, when it
>wasn’t crashing.
>>
>>And it
>>was always crashing.
>>
>>So when I do mind mapping I use
>FreeMind, which is certainly
>>more stable than the over-priced
>VisualMind.
>>
>>Unfortunantely it is not able to to
>>create the same variety of map
>formats.
>>
>>I wonder if there is a reasonably priced mind
>>map program that offers
>the variety of a VisualMind or MindManager without the
>>excessive
>cost?
>>
>>Daly
>>
>>Tom S. wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>Stephen R. Diamond
>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>Personal
>>>>Brain, which I have not yet tried,
>>>aside—I think
>if I
>>wanted to build a pim with mind
>>>>navigation, I would look to Mind
>>>Manager,
>plus
>>investigate the applicable
>>>>third-party add-ons, based on which a
>
>>>veritable
>>Mind Mgr subculture seems to be
>>>>developing.
>>>
>>>This is true
>but Mind
>>>Manager is
>>quite a bit more expensive.
>>>
>>>I was very enthusiastic
>about Personal
>>>Brain. But I
>>soon started to butt heads with a flaw. You end up
>connecting an item to
>>>quite a number
>>of different characteristics (context,
>start date, due date,
>>>project,
>>personnel, etc…) When you think about it we
>link data with an awful lot of
>>
>>>characteristics. Before you know it there a a lot of
>them and keeping track of them
>>with
>>>all of those connecting lines can be a
>pain.
>>>
>>>Tom S.
Posted by Daly de Gagne
Mar 18, 2007 at 02:45 PM
Stephen, I mean I will check out MindMapper.
Daly
Daly de Gagne wrote:
>Stephen, thanks for your reply.
>
>Of course, you are not responsible for my decision
>—even if you did recommend a particulalr program.
>
>In this instance though, if I
>recall correctly you may have had a leaning to MindGenius (is that the correct
>name?).
>
>Anyhow, thanks for the feedback on VM’s developer. That is good to know.
>
>I
>have downloaded VM 8, and it seems much more stable.
>
>I will check out
>VisiMind.
>
>Daly
>
>Stephen R. Diamond wrote:
>>Daly de Gagne wrote:
>>>Is there
>something about the complexity of creating mind map
>>programs that leads to
>>>them
>being so epensive?
>>
>>All I can figure is that they are
>>marketed to corporations.
>Products for corporate use (and even more so for lawyers)
>>always seem
>overpriced.
>>>
>>>A few years ago I bought VisualMind 7—it was the worst
>
>>
>>>software investment I ever made.
>>
>>Was I responsible for this bad decision? I
>
>>didn’t find it grossly unstable. A conflict with WindowBlinds that he developer
>
>>denies exists would cause constant crashing if you apply it to VM. I have been
>
>>dissatisfied the the development path, with is now emphasizing group use. The
>
>>developer is very polite but one of the most unresponsive I have come across. When
>
>>still at 7 (a version 9 beta has just been released), the developer agreed that he
>Notes
>>Pane was way underdeveloped and that it should at least be possible to set a
>different
>>default font. This remains true of the version 9 beta. When I asked
>whether they would
>>consider adding default configurability for the notes pane
>before the final
>>release, the developer as usual thanked me for my suggestion. I
>would be most
>>surprised if it were included.
>>
>>I now use Visi-Mind, which has
>excellent support and
>>stability, but the features probably would not suit you. I
>like Visi-Mind _for_ some
>>of its defects. The unpolished appearance helps keep my
>concentration on content. I
>>think of the mind-mapping programs, with the possible
>exception of MindManager,
>>Visi-Map is the most suited to serious work of the better
>known programs.
>>
>>I don’t
>>know if you’ll trust my recommendation this time
>around after VisualMind, and this
>>isn’t exactly a recommendation, because I have
>only read about the program and
>>downloaded it briefly—but you might check out a
>program called MINDMAPPER. It has
>>more frills than Visi-Mind, is fairly
>innovative with database like features, and is
>>less expensive than the big
>players, although not cheap.
>>>
>>>Nice program, when it
>>wasn’t
>crashing.
>>>
>>>And it
>>>was always crashing.
>>>
>>>So when I do mind mapping I use
>
>>FreeMind, which is certainly
>>>more stable than the over-priced
>
>>VisualMind.
>>>
>>>Unfortunantely it is not able to to
>>>create the same variety
>of map
>>formats.
>>>
>>>I wonder if there is a reasonably priced mind
>>>map program
>that offers
>>the variety of a VisualMind or MindManager without the
>>>excessive
>
>>cost?
>>>
>>>Daly
>>>
>>>Tom S. wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Stephen R. Diamond
>
>>
>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>Personal
>>>>>Brain, which I have not yet tried,
>
>>>>aside—I think
>>if I
>>>wanted to build a pim with mind
>>>>>navigation, I would
>look to Mind
>>>>Manager,
>>plus
>>>investigate the applicable
>>>>>third-party
>add-ons, based on which a
>>
>>>>veritable
>>>Mind Mgr subculture seems to be
>
>>>>>developing.
>>>>
>>>>This is true
>>but Mind
>>>>Manager is
>>>quite a bit more
>expensive.
>>>>
>>>>I was very enthusiastic
>>about Personal
>>>>Brain. But I
>
>>>soon started to butt heads with a flaw. You end up
>>connecting an item to
>>>>quite
>a number
>>>of different characteristics (context,
>>start date, due date,
>
>>>>project,
>>>personnel, etc…) When you think about it we
>>link data with an
>awful lot of
>>>
>>>>characteristics. Before you know it there a a lot of
>>them and
>keeping track of them
>>>with
>>>>all of those connecting lines can be a
>
>>pain.
>>>>
>>>>Tom S.
Posted by Dominik Holenstein
Mar 18, 2007 at 05:20 PM
Cassius
You are not missing something if you ask me!
Because I think that creating a mind map is just another representation of the outline paradigma.
I am a convert coming from the PersonalBrain and MindMapping perspective to the classical text oriented outlining.
Even I still like PersonalBrain I don’t use it anymore. Version 4 has some interesting features and will be worth a look but I am still hesitant because to the export capabilities.
Regarding the Mind Mapping software: I am using MindManager X5 standard edition and it is ok for my needs. I haven’t upgraded to v6 yet and every three months I think ‘now I am going to upgrade!’ but when I see the price I then stop the buying procedure.
I don’t think MindMapping software is overpriced because I know how difficult it is to develop a stable solution. When you consider all the features these applications deliver then the pricing is ok.
My dream system is having the MindManager version 6 pro and the Gyronix ResultManager 2 pro edition. Have a look at the price of the full bundle… (around USD 310.00 ResultManager2 only)
Dominik
Posted by Stephen Zeoli
Mar 18, 2007 at 05:23 PM
Cassius wrote:
>I have never been a
>“visual” thinker and so have never used mind mapping. I have occasionally looked at a
>mind map screenshot, but each I’ve seen seems to be capable of being re-expressed as a
>left-pane outline (viz., as a hierarchal tree).. Am I missing something?
>
I have never warmed up to mind mapping either. I think it can be a convenient method for expressing certain types of information to others, but it doesn’t seem to bear a lot of fruit for my brainstorming and planning. The one difference between mind-mapping and straight outlining that comes to my mind is that the structure of an outline is linear… that is, subjects even on the same level flow in a definite direction. A mind map, being more radial, eliminates this distinction. I’m sure that those who find mind maps useful will be able to tell us about the many other advantages that I can’t think of.
Steve Z.
Posted by Graham Rhind
Mar 18, 2007 at 05:58 PM
I think a distinction needs to be made between mind maps (as I know them, which, as Cassius said, could be expressed in a tree-like linear form); and non-tree-like navigation/outliner systems, such as Personal Brain.
An item in a tree can have one parent, and multiple children. That’s the basis and at the same time the limitation. After that, most tree-like outliners have to think of (mostly awkward) ways of creating internal links between branches, such as creating virtual copies of the files or having text wiki links.
What a tool like Personal Brain allows (or should allow) is links from any item to any item, regardless of its place in any hierarchy, so you get a web rather than a tree. By choosing your topic you see all the topics linked to it, regardless of where they might be if the items were tree-based.
I see this as being a graphical version of a web or wiki page - it’s a network. Some people like that sort of thing. Others like the tree structure, which is inherently neat and understandable. I use tree-based outliners, but hate the way most handle internal linking, and wondered whether graphical interfaces would help.
By the way, I’ve seen the current Personal Brain 4 beta and it seems to me to still be all over the place, so I think there’s a way to go yet ....
Graham