WinCatalog

Posted by 22111
Jan 27, 2014 at 10:21 PM

Jim and Wayne,

it occurs to me that since we’re speaking defunct functionality, even though you say it works (I have XP only and so cannot check), you rely upon that functionality that is inherent to the file manager in question - please try to read that same data, from X2 to Explorer, to DO… this will be rather instructive.

Jim,

Yes, I’m speaking of those Alternative Data Streams, some months ago I spent 2 days with the problem, and indeed, they have officially been shelved by MS - it’s all the more of interest how MS does it now with Explorer, and as Wayne says, we need some system where the same file info is available whatever file manager we use - hence the interest of ADS (on ntfs at least), but which has been dumped, without having being replaced.

Wayne,

Your last post says it all, the functionality would have had to be within a (good, paid, ok if it’s expensive) file manager, but it is not (anymore) - did I say it would be interesting to show if at least the X2 colums are 100 p.c. compatible with the DO ones, and vice versa? (Since both have become sort of “proprietary” now, in 7/8 (and beginning with Vista if I remember well).) - All those additional programs add too much fuss, especially if they do not synch themselves.

Of course we are mixing up two paradigms here: Virtual folders (= distribution into groups from start on), and “column” data (which is for filtering on that afterwards), but as long as we’re aware of our discussing two concepts at the same time (since they fulfill the same task)...

Let’s speak again of the “individual” columns you think you need. As I had understood it, most of them are standard attributes, not of the file manager in question, but of the ADS / ntfs system, i.e. “author”, “last changed”, etc., etc. - these were perfectly “exportable” between any file manager, in ADS days (up to XP).

On top of these, your local Win version seems to add the whole bunch anew, i.e. you have got all these in English, and then even perhaps in German, French, Spanish… So there must indeed be a way to add “individual” columns to ADS, since the local Win version does exactly that. (But then, there would be “exportability” issues, not from one file manager to another, but from one Win installation to another in another language, and both should be XP.)

I would have tried to find more precise info on these matters, had it not been the fact that anyway, that system is doomed. I think I remember that a third-party add-on does that in Explorer, even in 7/8, you always can read (but not write?!) ADS data, but you’d need X2 or DO to write it into those ADS of these files.

Again, I tried to discuss these matters with X2 developer, but he fervently holds to any know-how advantage he might hold.

Also, at present, this ADS is always there, but not “acknowledged” by MS anymore; in “tomorrow” ‘s file system, it might not even be available anymore, even for such proprietary solutions offered now by X2 and DO - which arises the question where XY does store its metadata, and why it has been called “proprietary” to begin with? I think I remember it’s stored in a db over there?

III

Wayne, with all reservations re ADS today, why do you need MORE “columns” (ok, X2 calls them that, but they are ADS attributes) than are available in X2? I have these attributes in 2 languages, but I counted them, they are 67! Let’s say in your English-ownly system, these are about 35 only, and you cannot enter text data in a “last accessed” attribute, that’s accepted, but there are numerous such attributes, and in the “Comments” attribute at least, you can put multiple codes, keywords, whatever! Would’nt that be enough, with carefull planning? (Which is necessary because it’s very cumbersome to batch-change all this, afterwards.)

Wayne, trying to get too much info into file names is pure horror, as you have seen for yourself. That’s why invented my multiple folders system where the respective folder is displayed for every outline item, and this means, instead of doing metadata by ADS anymore (or within file names), I try to put every external file into the proper sub-folder.

Then (since this makes only for “sorting by ONE criterion), for author names and such, I use “Search Everything” (SE), which only searches within the global “container” folder that “holds” these detailed folders, i.e. I try to not code info that is readily available by SE anyway (but I very often add additional, explicative info to the original file name, in the form “original file name (my additional info).suffix” (in order to not have to open pdf’s too often such for a “what was it again upon?!” afterwards).

Then, there is file linking; in a system like mine, with hundreds of folders, file linking is very efficient. Here, I have to acknowledge that my advise isn’t as good as my reality: My folders are named in the form “cio - IM - Outliners” = I do NOT describe the first code, C = Computer; I’ve got just 30 such codes, and I memorize them. Then, for the second code (= often many, for each first code, = may be over hundred of them, no need to memorize them), I do a SHORT explanation, here “IM” for “i”. Then, the third code, as mnemonic as possible (so some details have weird names), “o” for “Outliners”, this I write in “full description”.

Now the trick in my system is that for any file operation, it’s just the code part that I need, and the same goes for folders. I not only have a folder “cio - IM - Outliners”, but whenever I want to switch to that folder, I just do an “F7 cio”, and AHK does not just enter the “enter” (I’ve got 1 sec and a half to enter the 3 characters, so I better decide upon them before pressing F7), but also replaces, internally, the “cio” by the full folder name.

This means, whenever I have got some OTHER file, anywhere, which I also would like to be able to access from within the cio folder, I simply select that file in ANY file manager, then press “control-F7 cio”, and I don’t even have to check there: In any case, that file, with its full file name, will have got a link file within the “cio - ...” folder (and if really there is a technical problem, I’d get a message).

Now, if I say, do similar, I know that in a regular file system, this is not “work” for (literally) 2 seconds, but a lot of fuss, and this prevents pc users from using such a system, hence the interest of extensive tagging instead, but this tagging, too, should be done with codes; then, either anything in just one big folder, and filtering, or in different folders, and SE (or in X2 and some other file managers, even filtering “over” many subfolders at the same time).

What about a non-intrusive “code” symbol like the degree symbol, which probably you’ll never use in any file name (internal or external)? Then, “°cio - original filename”, “°cio - another original filename (and some short comment of yours)”, “°cek - original filename.pdf” for e.g. some intro into “Computer - Editors - KEdit”, etc., etc.

Why the degree sign? Because most “searchers”, like SE, would produce many false “hits” when you’d search for such codes, most of which are ubiquitous as parts of words, since it’s not so simple (or even impossible) to search with these special tools just for characters at the beginning of a filename.

Then, the same principle applies to other codes, ToDo/Delegation/Belongs-to-project-xyz codes and such: Here again, you need some code symbol you otherwise will never use (but there are plenty of them available, for standard fonts like Arial, Tahoma and such, between abc and the accented chars, or then, the ° again, and next char being a char you will not use as FIRST char of any naming code), and then hold it as simple and short as possible, at the BEGINNING of file names.

Example for an external file: “°cek - Some Intro into KEdit”, which is within your general folder (or within your folder “sw” when you prefer trans-folder filtering). You need this within a certain project, let’s say you have some qualitative analysis work to do, let’s say a project called “slf - Sociology - Film Buffs in London (from Art House to illegal file exchange (whatever)”, and for which you need KEdit, and you want to have this intro handy there. Now I would simply make a link from the original file in cek that appeared in slf, but you will have just a slf folder, too, or in the folder “university”, “writings” or such, or then, your “all in” folder.

Anyway, you need cek… within your slf project. So you would RENAME your original file, from “°cek - blahblah” to “°cek - (°slf) blahblah” - or to “°cek - (°slf) (°pks) blahblah” if you need it in another project, too. Now you want your kid to have a look into it, for its homework, and you rename it “°cek - °zt (°slf) (°pks) blahblah”, or, instead of °zt, #t; both are for “Tom should have a look into it” (let’s say you have 2 children, Tom and Jerry, that leaves you anything else but zt and zj available for other coding (whilst the # variant would be perfect if you had two dozen collaborators, leaving the z for other, various codings).

Now in your project slf, you have SE search for °slf (the ° being placed there by macro), or you simply FILTER FOR °slf, and your file manager shows you any file that you need for your London ex-cinema-goers project.

Here, one very important detail: Don’t despice free file managers: I own 6 or 7 paid ones, but FreeCommander XE is a wonderful piece of free sw which does better filtering than most highly-paid ones.

I know all this is not beautiful, because of the multiple add-ons to file names, but ADS isn’t available anymore, or just within one single file commander. My system (references to files in multiple contexts/folders) seems to be best… when I’ll have overcome the prob that all those fine quick links are broken whenever I rename the original file name… It seems that beyond XP, and with other formats than just .lnk files, there are possibilities. Remember I do NOT have multiple context coding in my system, just ToDo coding (and even that could be replaced by “virtual” folders, i.e. real folders, named “Today”, “This Week”, etc., just containing .lnk files pointing to the original files - remember, one such link / “tag”, in my system, takes 2 seconds, incl. the entry of the target name(‘s 2 or 3 character code).

I’m more than willing to discuss other file naming conventions, but for a start, the above details might justify some batch renaming, then seeing how you can do it best: Select the files that “go” into one project / context / subject / whatever, add the common code, do it again for other subgroups… do not try to do it all manually. And for that batch renaming. Above, I said I often add (comments).suffix after the original filename; here for multiple context, etc. coding, when you do batch rename, you will always replace the “) ” by “) SomeAddition”, so try to rename/code the most important file groups first, then add secondary group assignments… and depending on your batch renamer (lots of them are free, and some of the best ones are in paid file commanders), you might even avoid separating different codings by spaces, since this would bring the possibility to not only add at the end of the coding section of the file names, but also at the beginning - of course, you can use brackets and braces, but they are even uglier. Or then, separate them with semicoli, and leave out the parentheses altogether - that’s probably best. (But don’t leave out the °°° - you’ll also need them for any renaming, afterwards.) (Well, thinking about it… why any (); or whatever, anyway?

Have it this way, imo:

°xpc °ats °flz °za °zt - Original Filename (Author or such).suffix

And you’ll always be able to replace the ” - ” by another ” °plt - ” then. But code your contexts, or else you’ll get file names 30 cm long and will lose all faith in pckind. (And yes, I would have preferred the preservation of ADS comments; btw, X2 even lets you filter by them, as long as it goes.)