Re: Obsolete and awkward software

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Note: This message is from the outliners.com archive kindly provided by Dave Winer.

Outliners.com Message ID: 4759

Posted by srdiamond15
2005-12-19 00:12:52

Actually, I inadvertently misinformed you about why I didn’t try Surfulator. I just downloaded it again, installed it, and was informed that the trial period is over. This refreshed my memory of the actual reason. The name plays its role in all of this, but its role isn’t so direct as I represented.

If we talk about interface in these terms, then we have no disagreement in the abstract about the importance of a good—not necessarily attractive—interface. I recall that Idea! didn’ allow certain panes to be resized, and some posters criticized along that line. The developer adopted the change.

To me what you consider important interface distinctions are of only marginal significance. I would probably agree with you that your way of doing it is better, but I just wouldn’t care that much, because much more fundamental differences will be essential.

One thing we’ve certainly seen in this forum is that time hasn’t necessarily brought progress in software. In some ways the ancient programs were stronger, probably much stronger. And from reports, their ergonomics weren’t bad either. They were, it seems, programs that were hard to learn but easy to use once you learned them. Which isn’t a bad proposition for a program you would probably use intensively every day. (This has to be taken into account in evaluating these programs.)

One thing that I consider crucial, but other disagree, is unlimited (or practically unlimited) undo, and this is the one feature that has unequivocally progressed. I would use it as an acid test for having a “modern interface” in terms that really matter in an outlining program(although apparently not to everyone). Does Surfulator have undo in the “Knowledge Tree”?

Almost all the outlining ideas were present in the ancient classical programs. Even though DOS didn’t support multiple selection, they managed, users report, to include the equivalent of mark and gather. They had hoisting and, I think, hoisting based on semantic filtering in the tree. What are Surfulator’s properties with respect to multiple selection of items in the tree, reorganizing by mark and gather or the equivalent, and hoisting?

As to gathering from the web, I somehow just don’t see the big deal. So what if you can clip anything an attach it in any one of three ways? (That you can edit a web snipping is a serious feature, I’ll admit. But I can already do that.)

Stephen R. Diamond

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